tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post5540633267784167987..comments2023-05-24T09:45:52.821-05:00Comments on Title Magic: Top Five Grammar GaffesSavanna Kougarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15698138048388102279noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-21917948600184426652008-01-14T14:57:00.000-06:002008-01-14T14:57:00.000-06:00Kristen, I'm sorry if you feel offended. That was ...Kristen, I'm sorry if you feel offended. That was not my intention. I did take offense from your -- what I perceive to be -- an inflexible stand. When you haul out reference books, yes, I have a tendency to believe you have no room for something new. The ole' rules-are-made-to-be-broken-by-some-of-us-thing. I have previously stated there are certain writing styles where 'said' works and does become invisble, which I enjoy. Why, you have ignored my truth in this matter, I am not sure. I hope, since you now say, you are a writer, that your particular writer's voice is conducive to 'said'. Personally, I've said 'said' so many times now, I am bored with it. As I previously stated, which seems to be ignored, everyone does have their own cup of reading tea, which I totally respect. I am not asking you to like reading my novels, not at all. I simply suggested you check out my post on the dialoque entry for the American Title, that's all. It won't waste too much of your time. And if you want to say you hate it, fine by me. I personally do not care for being accused for what I did not say. Since I take great pains to say it for the sake of truth. If you want to put 'said' in every sentence of your novel, be my guest. I thought I offered a fair and just way for both of us to agree to disagree. You read my dialogue entry and decide for yourself. That's all! However, it's certainly fine my me if you choose not to, since the word 'said', will not be used as a dialogue tag. Every one of us is free to write as we see fit, including said use of 'said', or if we want to use 'boast' we can. Now, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But I will confess I rather like 'boast'. However, I didn't read the story so I have no way of determining if it worked or not. So, I'll take Mel's word for it.Savanna Kougarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15698138048388102279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-72895010593412420902008-01-14T10:57:00.000-06:002008-01-14T10:57:00.000-06:00Late Comment! :-)Hiya Kelly! Welcome to Title Mag...Late Comment! :-)<BR/><BR/>Hiya Kelly! Welcome to Title Magic!<BR/><BR/>My writer's group was dealing with dialogue attributions this weekend, so I wish I had read all of your comments first!<BR/><BR/>One of our members never uses said, opting instead for things like "she yawned" "he sneered" "she boasted" and even sometimes going so far as replacing said with lines of action that should have been sentences in and of themselves. You could see everyone at the table winced when he read one of those because they were so obvious and awkward.<BR/><BR/>I told him that his dialogue didn't need descriptive attributions. Good dialogue doesn't need things like "he boasted" because you can tell that he's boasting from the thing he said. In most cases it's better to use nothing at all, the word said for clarity's sake, or something akin to Kristin's examples. At least it was for his writing style, anyway!<BR/><BR/>Hope everybody had a great weekend!Mel Hiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09945592428034100547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-52369035954923315022008-01-13T22:37:00.000-06:002008-01-13T22:37:00.000-06:00No, Savanna, you are right, I haven't read your wr...No, Savanna, you are right, I haven't read your writing. And I hope you don't think by my comments I was judging your books. I just was in disagreement with how you viewed the word 'said.'<BR/><BR/>To me, it is invisible and a necessity in my writing. Perhaps my style is much different than yours.<BR/><BR/>I am only commenting on my experience with reading books that use anything *but* said or adverb+said. I find it distracting. Someone else may not.<BR/><BR/>That is why people enjoy such a variety of books. <BR/><BR/>Just as much as you took offense at my comments, can you see how I might find yours equally offensive? If I think 'said' is necessary and invisible, and you think it is 'boring,' then you have made a judgment on my writing as well without ever having read it.K J Gillenwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12023089365553324315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-85106472276020191232008-01-13T20:49:00.000-06:002008-01-13T20:49:00.000-06:00Just wanted to say thank you for the wonderful blo...Just wanted to say thank you for the wonderful blog...the advice is great, and the writing fun. Thank you...and I would go check my manuscript, but I'm sleepy and my bed is whining...:) Tomorrow, then...Lexie O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852547353184636030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-59560695353164826392008-01-13T20:31:00.000-06:002008-01-13T20:31:00.000-06:00Kristen, while I can understand what you're saying...Kristen, while I can understand what you're saying, however and for example, you haven't read the novels I've written, where I don't use 'said' as a dialogue tag. I got so completely sick of that word, I couldn't stand it! I felt like pulling my hair out -- ugh! Because I'd keep asking myself, what does that mean? How are the characters feeling, why and how are they saying their words? Said, said, said...who the heck cares? Not me!<BR/>Yes, maybe my novels, or my style of writing, is not for you. That I can understand. Just as over-used and over-abused 'said' novels are not for me. Can you spell B-O-R-I-N-G!?<BR/>And, that IMHO, is why there is a wide variety of writing styles available.<BR/>My lack of 'said' can't have completely turned off editors, since Murder by Hair Spray did final. And I certainly don't use 'said' as a tag line in that novel. When the dialogue entries come out on RT, I'll post mine, and you can then decide whether or not my style of writing is worth your reading time.Savanna Kougarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15698138048388102279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-5428482854240643912008-01-12T18:40:00.000-06:002008-01-12T18:40:00.000-06:00To me, Savanna, that's like saying the word 'the' ...To me, Savanna, that's like saying the word 'the' has been done to death or 'and.' There are just some basic words that you have to use in writing that do become 'invisible' to the reader, and that you couldn't really eliminate realistically. I don't think I've ever once been taken out of a book because of the word 'said.' <BR/><BR/>But I most definitely have if a writer uses everything *but* said as a dialogue tag...or use an adverb+said. Ugh.<BR/><BR/>"Said" is a basic word that gets the meaning across without detracting from the sentence.K J Gillenwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12023089365553324315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-57824986139208978322008-01-12T18:33:00.000-06:002008-01-12T18:33:00.000-06:00I agree, in terms of some writers, who can success...I agree, in terms of some writers, who can successfully use 'said' invisibly. And certainly, as Trish demonstrated, a lot of times I don't use tags. I'm sorry, I still HATE the use of 'said' in what I've read over the past ten years. It's like it's been done to over-death. IMHO. However, to each their own cup of reading tea.Savanna Kougarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15698138048388102279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-66558550909721211442008-01-12T13:36:00.000-06:002008-01-12T13:36:00.000-06:00Great blog. Thanks, Kelly. And you're right about ...Great blog. Thanks, Kelly. And you're right about the passive/active. Its always a challenge.Sandra Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03814573408898140885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-35944750957985675952008-01-12T08:36:00.000-06:002008-01-12T08:36:00.000-06:00I agree, Terry. "Said" is invisible when I am read...I agree, Terry. "Said" is invisible when I am reading. As for my writing, if the dialogue is between two people, I don't use a tag every time. I will just have dialogue...and perhaps action included. Until I feel the need to clarify again who is speaking.<BR/><BR/>For example:<BR/><BR/>"I don't want to go to school." Janie thrust her books into her backpack and glared at her mother.<BR/><BR/>Pam set a glass of juice in front of her daughter. "If you're not on that bus in five minutes, young lady, it's no computer time for a week."<BR/><BR/>Ta-da! No need for 'said' or any dialogue tags at all. In fact, I do prefer actions sometimes to give an idea of how a line of dialogue is spoken or the emotion behind the conversation.K J Gillenwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12023089365553324315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-31884981593925013522008-01-11T19:30:00.000-06:002008-01-11T19:30:00.000-06:00Just the opposite for me as a reader... "said" is ...Just the opposite for me as a reader... "said" is invisible. All the "thesaurus" words stop me and I go back to make sure the dialogue "matched" the word. I was reading a Robert. B. Parker Spencer book, and realized he'd used "said" to tag almost every line of dialogue for 3 pages, but until I went and looked for it, I hadn't noticed. Jack M. Bickham's 38 Most Common Fiction Writing Mistakes says "Don't be afraid to use said" for #19. And I think Browne & King's "Self Editing for Fiction Writers" which really taught me the craft, suggests "said" should be used about 85% of the time.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-58726970096831164482008-01-11T19:05:00.000-06:002008-01-11T19:05:00.000-06:00Kelly, you sound like one heck of an agent! I wish...Kelly, you sound like one heck of an agent! I wish...but as a reader I absolutely HATE the way the word 'said' is used these days. So I don't use it. Ever! Except in the dialogue itself. Or in a parody situation such as 'he said, she said'.<BR/>I'm hoping readers and reviews will be open to my way of tagging dialogue scenes, as I do in ALL SHADES OF BLUE PARADISE. For authors who are okay with e-publishing maybe Siren Publishing will give you a shot at another way of writing. Like they are me.Savanna Kougarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15698138048388102279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-90087814845166719032008-01-11T17:55:00.000-06:002008-01-11T17:55:00.000-06:00Kelly's grammar guide works wonders on a manuscrip...Kelly's grammar guide works wonders on a manuscript. she makes you more than part of a team; you're part of a family. She definitely goes the extra mile for clients.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-40882720918855866902008-01-11T16:25:00.000-06:002008-01-11T16:25:00.000-06:00Thanks for your words of advice, Kelly. Before I s...Thanks for your words of advice, Kelly. Before I started to write, I didn't worry too much about grammar in what I read unless it interfered with my comprehension. It's amazing how picky I've become now. I'm surprised how many published novels have grammar errors.Helen Scott Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12254001495060374379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8850524524995973615.post-84120176137478459472008-01-11T16:24:00.000-06:002008-01-11T16:24:00.000-06:00Thanks for the insight Kelly! I love your sense o...Thanks for the insight Kelly! I love your sense of humor. Now I'm going to go check my manuscript . . . :)Anitra Lynn McLeodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01797697362449591887noreply@blogger.com